Craig Daily Press / Our View: Show some thought for reason

July 2, 2008

Craig Editorial Board

Bryce Jacobson, newspaper representative
Jennifer L. Grubbs, newspaper representative
Collin Smith, newspaper representative
Cori Kroese, newspaper representative
Patrick Germond, community representative
Nancy Sadvar, community representative
Hal Glanville, community representative

When the Daily Press started its online forum, the newspaper was hopeful it would allow the community an easy way to be involved.

The paper’s reporters are keenly aware they cannot get to every story and perhaps more keenly aware they do not know everything.

This board would like to thank every community member that has taken the initiative to question a story, suggest ideas or challenge the Daily Press staff

Unfortunately, this board sees the forum sliding further and further into irrelevancy.

A cursory glance shows thoughtful comments are few, and reasoned discussion is rarer still.

We wonder what the community thinks about the forum at this point. It’s hard to know when it is so thoroughly dominated by so few people.

From our perspective, as people who could post but choose to stay away, there doesn’t seem to be much point in getting involved.

Without the same general (usually hysterical) point of view as the forum’s regulars, a person is ridiculed. It’s not that we don’t appreciate a little insensitive humor, but there is a point when it’s not funny anymore.

Most of the time, it’s not that funny to begin with.

But that’s not really the problem. A little jab here or a barb there never really hurt anyone, and we don’t want to advocate that the Daily Press begin censoring any comment that could be offensive.

The problem is the forum has no productive use.

The most that can be said is it’s a good representation of the Craig rumor mill: blatantly ill informed, paranoid beyond reason and harmful to any meaningful progress.

For example, one poster discusses hypothetical prices for a proposed recreation center as if they were real.

While it’s true that few could afford a membership if it had a $500 sign-up fee and cost an extra $150 a month, we don’t think that’s remotely close to what a membership actually would cost.

These comments are more propaganda than discussion. They are more about exciting people with scary numbers than looking at facts.

It would be nice to see some facts and not just blind hyperbole.

It would be nice to see some other residents join the discussion. Maybe they can keep the comments on point, instead of mixing in whatever “clever” zinger they just came up with.

Maybe what the forum needs most is a little humility.

We all should work to keep each other in check. The newspaper should report on what questions people raise, and people should keep raising questions.

But just because you heard someone say something about someone or something, or you think you know the real truth, please don’t smear mud on the forum and pretend that you are some omnipotent force in our community.

Being anonymous is not a free pass to spout whatever bile, attack or grudge you might have kept inside when people knew it was you talking.

This does not apply to everybody, and certainly nearly every person on the forum has had at least one good point.

But the forum can be more than what it is. It could actually do some good.

Comments

Craig Daily Press doesn't necessarily condone the comments here, nor does it review every post.
Read our full policy. Also, read about banned accounts and harassing comments.

2 July 2008 at 7:13 a.m.

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grannyrett (Anonymous) says…

Okay, since the barb seems pointed at me, let's go. I think most posters know that my figures on the post were not made with any amount of accuracy. The point I am trying to make is that most people don't stop and think about the added expenses of having a rec center. It ain't free folks. Not only will taxes be raised to build it, you will have to pay membership fees to join it, and monthly fees to go use it. Taxpayers got a triple whammy when they voted for a hospital, new school, and then the accessed value of their house went up. Maybe you can afford it, but those who are living on a fixed income can't do much more. With the cost of fuel sky high, it's going to be hard for some people to keep their homes warm this winter. You want to add more expenses on top of what they are already trying to budget for? Nuts!

2 July 2008 at 8:40 a.m.

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50cal (Anonymous) says…

Gee granny I could see myself in some of that as well. so I'm not sure what i'm going to do yet but a thought is coming.

2 July 2008 at 8:54 a.m.

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sickandtired (Anonymous) says…

I like the forum, even though I haven't posted very often. I would like to see more people use the forum. Its a great way to tell the community what you think without really sticking your neck way out there. I do agree that it gets rather monotonous with just the same few posting on it. I think the CDP should remind its readers once a week that it is there and encourage more use. Advertise that it is a lot like the speak up column you used to have. I might as well give my thoughts on a few topics……I don't really see why you print Raftopoulas article every week, I don't enjoy reading someones personal diary! I wish you would write articles about how junky some places in town look, this would bring awareness and hopefully shame to those whose places are so trashed it really is an eyesore. (north of town on the way to Baggs) I still disagree with the CDP printing spanish pages once a week and I wish we would get more restaurants in town other than more mexican ones. I'm also still fed up with getting raped at the gas pumps. Just last night it went up .08c! Just a few thoughts….. maybe people could actually respond on this forum without slinging mud.

2 July 2008 at 9:34 a.m.

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50cal (Anonymous) says…

to the board,

I was born and raised in this community and I have read this paper for years. A long time ago you had compitition and reporting was based on facts. Now you have none. The craig daily press reports on the feel good side of whatever issue the craig daily press wants to push through. Has there been any represention of the side opposed to the rec. center? No, will there be NO. The craig daily press wants a rec. center. Has there been any reporting on how much a rec. center will cost? No, its just lets keep putting it in the paper that some other group needs it or wants it. your forum used to be published in the paper for people who wanted to remain anonymous yet voice their opinion without being ridiculed. you took that away. Why? the clic that runs this community wanted it that way. Shut up all opposition. I am well aware that I have posted more than many on forums in a mostly childish humor that some people can't take or stand. If you could you would see that instead of being mean and hateful like you suggest I do not spout off until someone tells me how ignorant I am. If it is your desire that this be a serious disscusion forum only then we can do that. Now that being said you get off your butts and find out some real news. Heres a few suggestions: why was the collage and hospital sold a bill of goods on the ground they bought for their new buildings. why was a contractor brought in from Denver to do the subbase work and foundations on the site of the new campus? why after tests showed that compaction was not being done the right way did officals shrug their shoulders and accept the results? why this year are they willing to accept that this year its because of the wet soil conditions and not because the road was not built correctly to begin with last year? Why when voters turned down a rec center four years ago is it being looked at again? why was money spent to hire a firm out of Denver to study an issue that is already been turned down. Is this because the daily press is biased on this issue? The clic that you run with wants the rec. center? Why is there no objectivity in your reporting? cover the stories, but if you want serious duscussion on them then actually cover them. Altough you might wish to beieve that I am ignorant you might want to be careful what you wish for. I can turn serious on a dime which if you really paid attention to the forums you would know.

thank you, 50cal

2 July 2008 at 1:43 p.m.

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grannyrett (Anonymous) says…

Daily Press Editorial Board: Your job is to report the news. Are you doing it? NO. It isn't my job to find out how much membership or dues for a rec club would be. If you don't like my example, find out the facts and post them. I would love to know how much it would cost. You put it out there like we could build a rec center and everything is going to be wonderful happily ever after. How much does Meeker or Rawlins charge for their rec centers. It isn't my job to be a reporter. It is my honor to comment on the non-facts you put out there. If you don't like what I'm posting, give us facts, not bs. You do not care what we ask for. you print what you want and truth be damned. That's like your neighbor's articles. Canned questions you ask everyone. Really lets us know our neighbors, doesn't it. There are some mighty interesting people in this county, and if you would sit down and have a regular conversation with them, we as a community could get to know them. We don't really care who they would invite to dinner and what they would serve. We don't really care which of their five senses they would do without. How does that explain the person they are? Isn't there anyone who works for your “newspaper” that can conduct an interview and let us know the people that make up this county? You don't like the way this forum goes? Report the facts and it might get better. Tell us both sides of the story and we won't have to guess and wonder what the true cost of a rec center would be. Do your job.

2 July 2008 at 2:24 p.m.

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CollinSmith (Anonymous) says…

Dear posters,

Thank you all for staying active on our forum. We do appreciate that you take the time to be involved.

I am not writing to defend Wednesday’s editorial. I would like to discuss some of the issues presented here in a larger picture.

Before responding to some of the previous statements, I would like to say that our office is split between those who feel writing here is appropriate and those who feel it is wrong.

Some of us feel this forum should be only for community members so they can speak without interruption.

I think engaging the community can be beneficial for the paper and the town as a whole. We are not ignoring you.

It is, however, important to all of us that the newspaper staff does not become part of the news. If we were to irresponsibly flood the forum with opinions, we would lose all objectivity, and with it, all credibility.

Sometimes, it seems that those who have never worked in media or a public office assume a person needs to be in a “click” to be heard. I don’t how to convince people this is not true other than to say every voice is heard.

There is, of course, one exception.

As a paper of record, one determined to never print false rumor, we will not print statements from unnamed sources.

Which brings me, in a roundabout way, to addressing comments posted here.

No one on this staff will allow this community’s newspaper to become the meaningless ramblings of one person or group’s agenda.

Regarding the recreation center campaign, the only people quoted in the paper have been supporters because they are the only people putting their name out into the public domain.

In every article written about the campaign, organizers have encouraged resident participation, even asking those that have questions or concerns — or those that are opposed to the campaign — to come to their meetings.

I would like to encourage every Moffat County resident to become involved in the community in one way or another. If the recreation center campaign means a lot to you, if you think it is a financial mistake, I encourage you to voice your opinion.

This newspaper will not be shy about interviewing and quoting anyone with a valid point or concern.

But we need your name. If you feel strongly that your view is just, you shouldn’t need to stay anonymous.

In so many cases, it seems residents that oppose an issue — such as the recreation center or the bonds passed in November — will not give their name or will not agree to be interviewed.

Without your comments, we cannot print your point of view.

2 July 2008 at 2:25 p.m.

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CollinSmith (Anonymous) says…

Also, our paper is committed to reporting facts. The reason there have been no numbers associated with the recreation center proposal is because there are no numbers.

Campaign members have never discussed costs at their meetings because they do not know what they want to build.

For the same reason, they do not know the specifics of how it will be financed. It is not a fact that residents will have to pay a member sign-up fee.

However, officials have said and it has been reported that residents likely will pay membership dues, but no amount has been discussed as of today.

When the campaign knows what kind of recreation center it wants to build, you will know how much it costs.

The only public opposition has come from the Craig City Council, members of which openly questioned why they should authorize spending money to hire a firm to work on an issue that already was voted down.

They were quoted fully in the paper.

I sincerely hope this is not looked at as confrontational. I do not want to instigate a protracted argument about previous posts.

I guess all I want is for the community to understand where we as a staff — and myself personally — stand on the issues raised here.

We need your help and your insight to have the best community newspaper possible. Please don’t be a stranger.

Thanks,
Collin Smith
(970) 875-1794
cesmith@craigdailypess.com

2 July 2008 at 4:47 p.m.

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50cal (Anonymous) says…

OH thats it Collin now I'm going to kick your– Just kidding. you bring up some great points here. Maybe these points are valid from your point of view. One point though there are members of this community who are always out screaming about how much they want this thing next or that next and usuallly they are the voices that are heard. people who work for the the city of craig or the county are making policy decisions by putting out their views. they are not elected so they should not be doing this in an official debate. your right though people opposed should be voicing their complants. Oh wait they do right here maybe we are a bunch of rowdy no nothings but some of the info on here is true and could be worth looking into. as for getting involved that could be forthcoming for some of us there are alot of considerations involved with opening your mouth here in public. if you think the issues I raise are not valid email me and I will give you names and dates IF you want facts.

2 July 2008 at 8:55 p.m.

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grannyrett (Anonymous) says…

Collin-Gee, how hard it it? I would imagine the costs associated with a rec center would be somewhere in line with the rec centers in Meeker, Rawlins, and Steamboat Springs. Can anyone at the paper pick up a phone and call them? How about asking some questions. Some might be—How many people use the rec center out of a population of how many people? What are the costs of running a rec center? What are the costs of joining it? What are the upkeep costs? What kind of equipment does it have? What are the expenses? It may not be what it would cost in Craig, America, but it should be somewhere in that ball park. The public told the city four years ago it did not want to pay for a rec center. Apparently, no one listened. Why are we doing this again. Think if they push it often enough it will go through? I don't.

3 July 2008 at 7:49 a.m.

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grannyrett (Anonymous) says…

Collin: Have you tried to contact any of the posters here? 50 offered. You have the ability to contact every person who posts in this forum. Have you tried to talk to Stan? I thought this forum was for people to anonymously put their thoughts out there. Has that changed? Does it say anywhere in the rules and regulations that we have to have facts to back up our feelings? This is not a legal document. It's a forum. It's where the everyday person can voice his/her opinion. It doesn't matter if we are not some big wig person in this town. We don't have to be a business man, council member, or politician. We are Craig, America. If we give up our anonymity, some will put us down because we are the know nothings. Who are we—Malcontents who don't run businesses, run the city, run the county, or contribute so very much to the betterment of Craig. We aren't in the right “clique”, so our opinion doesn't matter much. Here, we, the people who have given our life's blood to this town, can put it out the way we see it. You don't have to like it. We are tired of having everything crammed down our throats. We use this forum to express how we feel about the articles you write about. You need something more than the Craig Powers That Be opinions. This is where the real Craigite can express their opinions. The everyday working people can let off some steam, seek to inform themselves and add their knowledge to what is out there. You at the paper have the ability to contact the posters and ask for official comments. If you don't, it isn't our fault.

3 July 2008 at 8:57 a.m.

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50cal (Anonymous) says…

Oh man, i promised i wasn't going to do this while i'm on vacation but, Granny you need to calm down. Please calm down. we need to argue this out rationally. please do not let emotion overrun your sence of making an effort to talk to people using reason. your getting mad and its not going to help you.

collin is busy and said he didn't monitor the forum all the time so give him a chance if he wants to and then the diologe can continue.

5 July 2008 at 3:47 p.m.

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taxslave (Anonymous) says…

Municipal Market `Fire in the Disco' Burns Borrowers (Update1)
By William Selway and Martin Z. Braun

July 3 (Bloomberg) — MBIA Inc. and Ambac Financial Group Inc. lost their AAA credit ratings. The biggest hospital in Sarasota, Florida, is paying the price.

David Verinder, chief financial officer of the Sarasota Memorial Health Care System, received daily e-mail messages last month informing him that interest costs on an $83 million bond issue were rising to 1.45 percent, to 1.75 percent, to 3.25 percent, to 5.9 percent, and finally to 9 percent by June 24, a more than fivefold increase.

“When rates started going up as quickly as they were, it certainly caused a great deal of stress,'' Verinder said.

The daily increases by Wachovia Corp. had nothing to do with the financial health of Sarasota Memorial. Hospitals, airports, school districts and local governments around the country have been socked with spiraling interest bills on many of the $80 billion of insured variable-rate bonds. When units of MBIA and Ambac, the two largest bond insurers, lost the top ratings from Standard & Poor's and Moody's Investors Service last month, the institutions they insured did too.

The downgrades are the latest blow to the $2.66 trillion municipalbond market, which is on track to have its worst yearly performance since 1999, according to Merrill Lynch & Co.'s Municipal Master Index. The index fell 0.08 percent in the first half of 2008, taking reinvested income into account.

7 July 2008 at 7:28 a.m.

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50cal (Anonymous) says…

tax? how are you doing? I thought there for a minute you had abandoned us. did you get the job of community rep at the paper or what? Nice to see your back.

7 July 2008 at 4:13 p.m.

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taxslave (Anonymous) says…

Hey 50, wuz up? I'm still here…..a comment about collins post…..I would never have expected the CDP to post on this site to answer us…that would be rediculous at least. What I did expect was an article written in the paper addressing the problem or the rumor mill and putting it to rest. It's called “investigative” reporting.

btw, did you know Cheney bribed the media 2 billion dollars at the beginning of Bush's administration to control the airwaves…..air, radio & newspapers. The papers in Texas cities along the NAU super hwy. were bought out by OZ as well.

Even NPR only reports on AP stories. There are no investigative reporters anymore. They have “I-Reports” now….we viewers are sending in the news…for free.

If an investigative reporter is good at their job they get assassinated….look how many journalists are dead in Iraq.

I don't think the MSM is allowed to ask questions about anything anymore. It's all a circus. Example…

go to any financial news today…you'll get two totally different stories from so called financial “experts”…..

bloomberg “oil down because us dollar is up”

market watch, “stocks down because us dollar is down”

go figure…..they all look rediculous.

We're going to attack Hugo you know….he's got oil too.

am I even on the subject?

7 July 2008 at 9:21 p.m.

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grannyrett (Anonymous) says…

tax—just barely, but that's okay. lol

7 July 2008 at 9:53 p.m.

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50cal (Anonymous) says…

tax remember operation mockingbird? its working go read my comments on the forth of july. good to have you back.

8 July 2008 at 8:17 a.m.

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oldsage (Anonymous) says…

50cal, you are 100% right about this paper. Two elections ago they suspended this forum for like two weeks after (the misdeeds of a candidate the paper was pulling for) were exposed and confirmed by his own daughter in law who stated something like a family meeting had taken place where the candidate told the family members what they would hear about him and that everything that had been discussed in the forum was talked about at the family meeting.

The paper shut it down and there was no more forum until after the election and many people quit posting.

As far as the printed word here, some people talk about credibility and loosing credibility, but because I know how wrong some of the stories have been in the past, I view each article with healthy skepticism. When friends and relatives get together on weekends we have had hours laughing about some of the complete nonsense reported as fact as well as the facts that are not reported in this paper. If you have been around long enough in this community you know why certain people and families get preferential treatment, they don't call it the Craig Mafia for nothing!

8 July 2008 at 9:12 a.m.

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50cal (Anonymous) says…

thats exactly it its been ran by the same families for a long time and then the paper wants you to stick your neck out so you can be discredited? I am trying with ol Collin to expose some stuff but we will see. There is definatly a bias towards what is reported. Don't believe it until you see it when looking for news around here. If the paper really was concerned about facts then Stan Hawthorne printed so many facts I can't count them about the hospital and never was one printed or checked into for that matter I'll bet.

22 July 2008 at 1 p.m.

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Isis (Anonymous) says…

Sad to say, there is a perfect, current example of a waste of forum space. The comments on the story of the Arkansas men/poaching are a sad representation of our community. I feel that the forum needs a moderator or two. Being anonymous on the forum is a privilege. It allows us to express our thoughts without any fear of small town paybacks. Howerver, this privilege also comes with responsibilities. The language and tone are degrading to our community. I ask, how many of the authors would like their children to read the postings?
We have a large population of open minded, intelligent, and polite citizens. This forum does not represent the true spirit of Moffat county with the current postings.

22 July 2008 at 2:48 p.m.

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redneckgirl (Anonymous) says…

Alright, it was my fault-I agree. I apologize and I am not posting any more comments on it.

22 July 2008 at 4:33 p.m.

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lonelyone (Anonymous) says…

I'm with you Red. If I can't say something nice, I'm going to try very very hard to keep my thoughts to my self.
Isis, you and Carson1 on the other topic have been a soothing balm when it was needed.

22 July 2008 at 7:09 p.m.

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redneckgirl (Anonymous) says…

Actually I think you are a great sooting balm as well lonely! You are always very open minded and you have a big heart-as 50 says you are the angel on his shoulder and you are on the rest of ours too!

22 July 2008 at 7:14 p.m.

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lonelyone (Anonymous) says…

aah, shucks, it ain't nothin!!

22 July 2008 at 7:20 p.m.

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lonelyone (Anonymous) says…

actually, after reading that other persons comments on the other topic, I had my dander up really bad and it took Isis and some of Carson1 to make me calm down.
I don't believe anyone of us would ever do the things we talked about. The topic just got out of hand and fuel was added to make alot of us nuts over the whole thing. BUT it is done now……….I've taken a really deep breath and have let it out slowly. Now I feel better!